Shayla: Will we see God or not?

Question: I find the verses about no man can look upon God and live and again in John 1:18, 1 Timothy 6:16- 17, and Exodus 19:9,21 and I seem to recall you saying that we will not see God in Heaven. Yet, in Numbers 12:8, Moses spoke face to face, seeing the form of God. Exodus 24:10 men DID see God and lived. Ezekiel 1:26 indicates the man sitting on the throne was God and he saw Him. How can this seeming discrepancy be explained?

Meforshim:

The words of God the Father, God the Son, Paul and John are too clear, too unequivocal to be taken any other way than literally. No human has ever or will ever see God the Father in His full glory.

• Exodus 33:20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
• Matthew 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
• Luke 10:22 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
• John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
• John 6:45b-46 Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
• 1 John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

Note: Since in several of the verses Christ is being quoted and since Christ is God and we see

Him, obviously He is referring to the other aspect of the Trinity – God the Father. In fact, He makes it clear that He is here to “explain” God the Father to us.

I say human because apparently the angels are capable of seeing God the Father.

• Matthew 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

It was commonly understood by Old Testament people that to see God would bring death.

They expressed shock when they witnessed a visitation by God and survived. Yet survive they did!

• Genesis 16:13 Then she (Hagar) called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, “You are a God who sees”; for she said, “Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him?”
• Genesis 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.”
• Exodus 3:6 He said also, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Note: Later, as the Lord’s servant, Moses would meet with God on Mount Sinai (19:3) and even ask to see God’s glory (33:18).

• Exodus 19:9, 21 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will come to you in a thick cloud, so that the people may hear when I speak with you and may also believe in you forever…Then Moses told the words of the people to the Lord…Then the Lord spoke to Moses, Go down, warn the people, so that they do not break through to the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish.”

We see passages where humans saw God! Adam and Eve evidently were in the habit of walking with God at a certain time of the day.

• Genesis 3:8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.

Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy elders of Israel saw God, though they did not see God in the fullness of His glory.

• Exodus 24:9-10 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.

King Nebuchadnezzar gives us a very good clue to our mystery when he looks into the fiery furnace into which he had just thrown the three amigos, Shadrach, Meschac and Abed-nego.

• Daniel 3:24-25 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astounded and stood up in haste; he said to his officials, “Was it not three men we cast bound into the midst of the fire?” They replied to the king, “Certainly, O king.” He said, “Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!”

Note: Nebuchadnezzar was speaking as a pagan polytheist and was content to conceive of the fourth figure as a lesser heavenly being (v.28) sent by the all-powerful God of the Israelites.

In spite of his initial trepidation, Moses later asked God if he could see the Lord’s glory.

God had to take special pains just so Moses could see the receding edge of God’s glory without dying.

• Exodus 33:17-23 The LORD said to Moses, "I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name." Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!" And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion." But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!" Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock; and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.” Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."

God’s revelation does not come with equal clarity to His servants. There may be oracles of the Lord that a prophet might not fully understand at the time; to him they may be riddles and mysteries (cf. 1 Peter 1:10-11). But to Moses, God spoke with special clarity, as though face to face (see also Deut. 34:10).

• Numbers 12:5-8 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and He called Aaron and Miriam. When they had both come forward, He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. "Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; With him I speak mouth to mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant, against Moses?"
• Deuteronomy 34:10 Since that time no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

Ezekiel was also granted a vision of God. But you can sense him struggling with the words, trying desperately to describe something unspeakable. He admits to only seeing the “appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord”. Again, he did not see God the Father in all His glory.

• Ezekiel 1:27-28 Now above the expanse that was over their heads there was something resembling a throne, like lapis lazuli in appearance; and on that which resembled a throne, high up, was a figure with the appearance of a man. Then I noticed from the appearance of His loins and upward something like glowing metal that looked like fire all around within it, and from the appearance of His loins and downward I saw something like fire; and there was a radiance around Him. As the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

So who are these people seeing, if they say they see God but God says that’s impossible?

The only answer is the one that Christ Himself gave to the disciples when they asked to see the Father.

• John 14:6-9 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?
• Matthew 11:27 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

We must remember that God is Triune (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). To see one is to see the others. To know one is to know the others. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are invisible to us.

• 1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
• 1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
• John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.
• Cp. Luke 24:39 See my hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

However, Christ is God in flesh. God incarnate.

• John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
• Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Sometimes what these people witnessed, when they said that they “saw God” was what is called a “theophany.” A theophany is an appearance of God in visible form, temporary and not necessarily material (like in Exodus 33:20ff). Such an appearance is to be contrasted with the incarnation, in which there was a permanent union between God and complete manhood (body, soul, and spirit). I believe that many times, however, what they were witnessing was pre-incarnate Christ. I know that Christ existed before His incarnation.

• John 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

I further believe that Christ became immanent long before His incarnation. I believe that it was through His immanency that the rest of the universe was created.

• John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
• Proverbs 8:22-31 The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old. From everlasting I was established, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills I was brought forth; While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. When He established the heavens, I was there. When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed, when He set for the sea its boundary so that the water would not transgress His command, when He marked out the foundations of the earth; then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, rejoicing in the world, His earth, and having my delight in the sons of men.

So I believe that it was Jesus who created everything by the impetus of the Father and through the power of the Spirit. I believe that it was Jesus walking in the Garden of Eden. I believe that it was Jesus that Jacob wrestled with. I believe Jesus came and loosed the bonds of the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace. The entire Bible is about the history of God’s interaction with man and He has consistently done it through Christ.

• Romans 11:36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.