Shayla: What is the point of creating creatures who will end up tormented in hell?

Extended question:

The biggest problem I have and possibly many Christians is that we don’t know what the point of eternal torment is. I mean, we don’t know God’s reasons for this. It doesn’t seem to make sense. What is the point of eternal torment? All the unbelievers in Hell will know they were wrong to reject God, but then what? Before the beginning of the earth God already (ALREADY!) knew what was going to happen to His creation. He already knew that many of them would reject Him, way before even the universe came about. Why then did He continue to create them? Why did He create them, or allow them to be born if He knew they would end up in Hell?

Meforshim:

First, allow me to establish Hashem’s good will and benign intent toward all of humanity. He clearly wants us to experience goodness. He openly states that He is seeking our welfare.

· Jeremiah 29:11-12 HCSB For I know the plans I have for you"--this is the LORD's declaration--"plans for your welfare, not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. (12) You will call to Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.

His goal is to instigate a freely chosen loving relationship with us that spills over into and positively effects our relations with our fellow humans.

· John 15:11-13 HCSB "I have spoken these things to you so that My joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. (12) This is My command: love one another as I have loved you. (13) No one has greater love than this, that someone would lay down his life for his friends.

He absolutely wishes that not one human soul would suffer and die. With this in mind He has very patiently dealt with us, trying to salvage as many as He can.

· 2 Peter 3:9 HCSB The Lord does not delay His promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

Now let’s examine the biblical view of predestination.

· Romans 8:29-31 HCSB For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. (30) And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified. (31) What then are we to say about these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

Before Elohim created the universe, in His transcendent, timeless, omniscience He was able to look across time (which hadn’t even come into existence yet!) and determine which souls would react positively to His outstretched hand. For those blessed souls He established some good works; some ministries and outreaches that would bring about not only their own good but would spread the Good News of God’s salvation to all mankind.

· Ephesians 2:8-10 HCSB For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift-- (9) not from works, so that no one can boast. (10) For we are His creation--created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

His desire for us is holiness and every spiritual blessing. He chose us before the foundation of the world for this purpose and His motive was? Loving favor.

· Ephesians 1:3-5 HCSB Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, in Christ; (4) for He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love (5) He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,

Love without the advantage of free will is no more than prostitution. Anyone who has either read or watched the Stepford Wives knows this. It is the sick and perverted who prefer the forced smile, the trembling acquiescence to unwanted touch. Hashem created us. He was not obligated to give us free will. He was not forced to create beauty, color or music. He did so of His own free will and was gracious enough to grant us the same benefit. It is this trait that makes us His “image”.

· Genesis 1:26-27 HCSB Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the animals, all the earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth." (27) So God created man in His own image; He created him in the image of God; He created them male and female.

“Imago dei” – the image of God. This phenomenal gift means that God has offered to us in truth, what the Devil hypocritically and dishonestly proffered.

· Genesis 3:5 HCSB "In fact, God knows that when you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

He created us to be free-will agents, like He is. When we wisely use this gift we become the sons and daughters of God.

· John 1:12-13 HCSB But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, (13) who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

· John 10:34-36 HCSB Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, I said, you are gods? (35) If He called those whom the word of God came to 'gods'--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- (36) do you say, 'You are blaspheming' to the One the Father set apart and sent into the world, because I said: I am the Son of God?

· Cp Psalms 82:6-7 HCSB I said, "You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. (7) However, you will die like men and fall like any other ruler."

However, like all great or powerful gifts, free will cuts both ways. You cannot have a free will that can only lead toward good. If we are truly free agents, some of us, like Lucifer must be free to choose what is wrong. However, we need to be clear – to choose to separate ourselves from God is death.

· Deuteronomy 30:19 HCSB I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live,

The reason? God is the source of life and light. To separate yourself from the source of life is to choose death.

· Deuteronomy 30:20 HCSB love the LORD your God, obey Him, and remain faithful to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land the LORD swore to give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

· John 1:3-4 HCSB All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. (4) Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men.

When God created the universe He said repeatedly that “it was good”. Gehenna and the Lake of Fire had not yet been made because there was no sin. Unfortunately, someone chose the wrong path and their choice created the Lake of Fire. I am not speaking of Adam and Eve because Gehenna (Hades in Greek) and the Lake of Fire were never intended for humanity.

· Matthew 25:41 HCSB Then He will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

Lucifer’s hubris created the Lake of Fire.

· Isaiah 14:12-15 HCSB Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground. (13) You said to yourself: "I will ascend to the heavens; I will set up my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the gods' assembly, in the remotest parts of the North. (14) I will ascend above the highest clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (15) But you will be brought down to Sheol into the deepest regions of the Pit.

To separate one’s self from Life and Light forever is to consign one’s self to eternal death and darkness. Satan and all those who follow him in his rebellion have chosen to not have God in their lives. They don’t want to live in a universe where God reigns as King. God has yielded to their wish.

· Matthew 8:12 HCSB But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

· Matthew 22:13 HCSB "Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him up hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

· Matthew 25:30 HCSB And throw this good-for-nothing slave into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Furthermore, the Scriptures seem to hint that Sheol’s Gehenna is always limited to the bare minimum required. Each person who voluntarily chooses separation from God causes Gehenna to be enlarged by precisely one more space.

· Isaiah 5:14 HCSB Therefore Sheol enlarges its throat and opens wide its enormous jaws, and down go Zion's dignitaries, her masses, her crowds, and those who carouse in her!

However, let it not be forgotten – that was not Adonai’s wish. And if they end up there it is literally over His dead body.

· Romans 5:6-8 HCSB For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly. (7) For rarely will someone die for a just person--though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die. (8) But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us!

Before the creation of time, the Trinity looked forward and saw Genghis Khan, the Holocaust, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, Idi Amin and Joseph Stalin. They saw the rapes, murders and desecration of the planet that wicked men and women would visit upon their creation.

However, they also saw the great art, music and intellectual creations that would come from creatures that could exercise their free will. They saw the Mother Theresa’s serving the poor lepers. They saw the Abraham Lincoln’s freeing the slaves. They saw the Martin Luther’s struggling to reform the Faith and free the people of their spiritual shackles.

More importantly they saw the possibility of adopting millions of these creatures into their family and elevating them to be co-heirs with the Son of God, children of the Most High, a nation of priest/kings. They saw these things thought that love freely given and accepted was worth it. They saw all of it – both the awful and the wondrous. They saw and did what they would hope each of us will do – they chose life.